I should write more often, I certainly have enough things on my mind, but typing is a much slower process than simply pontificating my thoughts during a conversation.
The LDS faith out here continues to fascinate me. No, I shan't be converting anytime soon. Chief among the reasons for never converting is that it is simply too much like any other denomination (I also count all non-denominationals as a denomination). The LDS too, believe that they have a hold of a special truth that everyone else is less privy to. This attitude pisses of evangelicals cause they know that it is, in fact, evangelicals who have that special truth. Nothing irritates a religious person more that the implication that there is a religion that has one-upmanship on theirs.
Since I classify as an evangelical, I guess that makes me a little less patient when my group pulls the "We know something you don't" card. I am becoming a little more bold saying, "No, I don't think LDS folks are going to hell (whatever that means), and yes, I think they do follow Jesus Christ", whenever someone spouts off their negative views of the LDS.
I often hear "but they have a WORKS gospel!" I think my new reply is going to be "Yes, isn't it great that they take the many, many commands of Christ pertaining to works seriously? Isn't it grand that they do not ignore the countless times the writers of the Epistles charge us to do good works?!"
To me, having a Grace Vs. Works stance is as fruitful as arguing election and free will. Scripture addresses both and gives credence to both. Let it go and quit getting ticked at folks who seem to have a leaning that runs contrary to your leaning. Lewis said that it was like trying to argue which blade of the scissors is not required.
But don't they worship a different Jesus? I'll tackle that one next time... goodnight!
Saturday, September 03, 2005
Sunday, February 06, 2005
Blah.. Blah..Blah
Just came back from a fabulous Superbowl party at church. I am not sure how many people were there, but it must have been at least 300. They set up those inflatable slides and jumping castles. The kids also had various games to play. I was making animal balloons.
We recently found out that we are moving to two services. We had 520 today which is amazing. We have only been open for four months.
I absolutely love my life out here. My only hangup is that Utah tips, rather than pays, their teachers. The salaries of Michigan beckon me back. I get tempted every now and again.
I am tempted to write something theological, but I am so tired. I was up early to do lights for the service, then there was the Superbowl party. I am whipped. So much good theology to talk about though. My brother Steve and I talked on the phone for about two hours the other day. It is interesting to me that, though we have spent the past 15 years or so apart, our theology is similar on so many points. Those similarities tend to get us cross eyed looks from traditional evangelicals. It is just comforting to know that there is at least one other person out there who does not think I am completely nuts.
We recently found out that we are moving to two services. We had 520 today which is amazing. We have only been open for four months.
I absolutely love my life out here. My only hangup is that Utah tips, rather than pays, their teachers. The salaries of Michigan beckon me back. I get tempted every now and again.
I am tempted to write something theological, but I am so tired. I was up early to do lights for the service, then there was the Superbowl party. I am whipped. So much good theology to talk about though. My brother Steve and I talked on the phone for about two hours the other day. It is interesting to me that, though we have spent the past 15 years or so apart, our theology is similar on so many points. Those similarities tend to get us cross eyed looks from traditional evangelicals. It is just comforting to know that there is at least one other person out there who does not think I am completely nuts.
Tuesday, July 13, 2004
On our Way
Well, we are only one week away from moving out to Utah. Regardless of how much crap we pack, there seems to be more of it. Mary Lee is out with her Mops group, and I have just gotten the kids to go to sleep. I seem to take multiple month breaks between writings. I think that is due mostly to the fact that I always have something on my mind that I would like to write about, but it would be long, so therefore I never get started on it. For example, tonight the issue of LDS folks is on my mind. I seem to be wayyyyy left of most evangelicals on this topic, and am probably still pretty left of the rank and file in my church... and they are a pretty open bunch.
I am not going to sit here and type out my developing views on LDS. Too much to say. I will say this, I am determined to learn about their faith from them .... not from people who oppose them. I will also add, just so you can get a sense of my direction, that I do not think their beliefs in what happened before we were born, or what happens after we die, in any way effects their or anyone else's salvation. My Theology is (and here I borrow a metaphor from Terry Taylor) Koko the Gorilla describing a California earthquake with his 300 word sign language vocabulary - "Damn Floor, Big Bite". Paul said we see through a darkened glass and we know in part. Therefore, I am not going to be so presumpteous to disqualify them (or anybody) for having theology that doesn't wash with me. My caveman-pounding on rocks to describe the Almighty probably sound to his ears an awful lot like their poundings.
I am not going to sit here and type out my developing views on LDS. Too much to say. I will say this, I am determined to learn about their faith from them .... not from people who oppose them. I will also add, just so you can get a sense of my direction, that I do not think their beliefs in what happened before we were born, or what happens after we die, in any way effects their or anyone else's salvation. My Theology is (and here I borrow a metaphor from Terry Taylor) Koko the Gorilla describing a California earthquake with his 300 word sign language vocabulary - "Damn Floor, Big Bite". Paul said we see through a darkened glass and we know in part. Therefore, I am not going to be so presumpteous to disqualify them (or anybody) for having theology that doesn't wash with me. My caveman-pounding on rocks to describe the Almighty probably sound to his ears an awful lot like their poundings.
Friday, April 23, 2004
What is that to you?
It is funny that as I read all that I have written on this blog in the past I find that I do not disagree with it. Everything I wrote is still valid. Those questions still are not answered.
So then.... why would I go out to Salt Lake?
That is hard to answer, because it depends on when the question is asked.... but since I am asking it now, I will give now's answer.
There is a part in John when, after Jesus had given a hard teaching, a bunch of people left him. Jesus turns to Peter and asks if he is going too? Peter's answer is, "Where else would I go."
I think that answer explains why Christ had such a heart for Peter. That was such a non-bullcrap answer. How many times Christ must have listened to the prim peacocks and the regurgitators, saying what they were supposed to say, sounding like they had it together when in honesty they were as hollow, if not more so, than anyone else. Peter gave the best answer he could. He would like to leave. He did not like what was happening. But there were simply no other options.
I also like Jesus' response to Peter at the end of John. Jesus tells Peter about a number of nasty things that are going to come his way in the years to come. Peter points over to John and says... "What about him?'
Jesus says something like, "What is that to you? You follow me."
I kind of get the impression that that has been his word to me of late. I used to (and still do) see other people's burdens and tragedies and think God Why? How? What for? .... I feel like Christ is looking at me and saying, "What is that to you? You follow me."
I think so many of my doubts and insecurities about God have risen as I have watched how he has dealt with other people. A man of God dies at a young age of cancer; a child begs for the life of her sick mother to no avail, a giving, kind man watches his son waste away to a horrible disease.
I distrust God vicariously.
I fear I may develop it experientially.
It is late and my brain is fuzzing out. I just wrote a paragraph of nonsense that I deleted. We will see where this is going at another time.
So then.... why would I go out to Salt Lake?
That is hard to answer, because it depends on when the question is asked.... but since I am asking it now, I will give now's answer.
There is a part in John when, after Jesus had given a hard teaching, a bunch of people left him. Jesus turns to Peter and asks if he is going too? Peter's answer is, "Where else would I go."
I think that answer explains why Christ had such a heart for Peter. That was such a non-bullcrap answer. How many times Christ must have listened to the prim peacocks and the regurgitators, saying what they were supposed to say, sounding like they had it together when in honesty they were as hollow, if not more so, than anyone else. Peter gave the best answer he could. He would like to leave. He did not like what was happening. But there were simply no other options.
I also like Jesus' response to Peter at the end of John. Jesus tells Peter about a number of nasty things that are going to come his way in the years to come. Peter points over to John and says... "What about him?'
Jesus says something like, "What is that to you? You follow me."
I kind of get the impression that that has been his word to me of late. I used to (and still do) see other people's burdens and tragedies and think God Why? How? What for? .... I feel like Christ is looking at me and saying, "What is that to you? You follow me."
I think so many of my doubts and insecurities about God have risen as I have watched how he has dealt with other people. A man of God dies at a young age of cancer; a child begs for the life of her sick mother to no avail, a giving, kind man watches his son waste away to a horrible disease.
I distrust God vicariously.
I fear I may develop it experientially.
It is late and my brain is fuzzing out. I just wrote a paragraph of nonsense that I deleted. We will see where this is going at another time.
Sunday, October 12, 2003
I'm sorry... Job is a sick story
Went and saw Stryper with Brook, Lee, and my brother this evening. As usual, I had a worthy conversation with Brook, albeit a short and interrupted one. It is interesting to my how sometimes thoughts I have about a subject do not get developed and refined until I put them into words. Brook was mentioning that Madeline Engle makes a supposition that perhaps Abraham had in fact failed the test when it came to sacrificing his son. He had chosen law over love. Interesting theory. When I heard that, I thought about how we always assume that the story of Job worthwhile. The more I think about it though, the more it bothers me.
Satan challenges God through his servant Job. As you may know, God accepts the challenge and allows Satan to torture Job in numerous ways to get him to crack. Job doesn't, and at the end God rewards him above and beyond anything he had ever had.
When quickly glanced over, it seems like a good lesson in remaining faithful to God, regardless of circumstances. However, when I take it apart, I find it disturbing. If this story were told outside the bible, most people would probably find it sick. Two people arguing over the stamina of another decide to torture him. Two children take a magnifying glass to a small animal and burn it in the sun to see what kind of a squeal it makes.
Job is given new children and wealth at the end of the story. Could other children make up for the violent death of my children? Could someone slaughter my Kathryn and Jacob and then think that offering me two children in their place that would make it all better?
At the end of the story, God makes it clear that Job has no grounds to question him. Why? Because God is stronger? Might makes right? Again, set aside for the moment that this is a biblical story. Would most of us not see it as bullying, that a stronger entity tells a weaker entity to not question the torture the stronger just inflicted?
I know I am bordering, if not entering, blasphemy here, but does it not show poorly on God that he can be goaded into a cosmic "pissing contest" with someone who is supposed to be the personification of Evil? How about rather, 'Satan, I don't give a flying rip what you think of any of my creatures. Your opinion does not matter to me. Go to Hell".
Brook and I both commented that the easiest answer is that the Bible is not to be taken literally. But if you don't, what good is it. If it is not reliable, then all of our notions of God are merely guess work. For all we know then, any or none of the present or historic religions may have been right.
I hate being on this shifting sand. I want answers and there are none to be had.
I have pages more thoughts on this topic, but sleep calls. Good night all. May God be patient with my stumblings in the dark.
Satan challenges God through his servant Job. As you may know, God accepts the challenge and allows Satan to torture Job in numerous ways to get him to crack. Job doesn't, and at the end God rewards him above and beyond anything he had ever had.
When quickly glanced over, it seems like a good lesson in remaining faithful to God, regardless of circumstances. However, when I take it apart, I find it disturbing. If this story were told outside the bible, most people would probably find it sick. Two people arguing over the stamina of another decide to torture him. Two children take a magnifying glass to a small animal and burn it in the sun to see what kind of a squeal it makes.
Job is given new children and wealth at the end of the story. Could other children make up for the violent death of my children? Could someone slaughter my Kathryn and Jacob and then think that offering me two children in their place that would make it all better?
At the end of the story, God makes it clear that Job has no grounds to question him. Why? Because God is stronger? Might makes right? Again, set aside for the moment that this is a biblical story. Would most of us not see it as bullying, that a stronger entity tells a weaker entity to not question the torture the stronger just inflicted?
I know I am bordering, if not entering, blasphemy here, but does it not show poorly on God that he can be goaded into a cosmic "pissing contest" with someone who is supposed to be the personification of Evil? How about rather, 'Satan, I don't give a flying rip what you think of any of my creatures. Your opinion does not matter to me. Go to Hell".
Brook and I both commented that the easiest answer is that the Bible is not to be taken literally. But if you don't, what good is it. If it is not reliable, then all of our notions of God are merely guess work. For all we know then, any or none of the present or historic religions may have been right.
I hate being on this shifting sand. I want answers and there are none to be had.
I have pages more thoughts on this topic, but sleep calls. Good night all. May God be patient with my stumblings in the dark.
Tuesday, September 09, 2003
God's Hand?
I don't have anything particular to write today, but I have fallen out of the habit - and I want to get back into it. I tend to fuss so long over what I am writing that I become overwhelmed at the thought of doing it. So just type Andy type.
We took Jacob in to get tubes put in his ears today. It is a relatively minor surgery, in fact, it only took a few minutes. I knew that the only real risk in the operation was the anestisia. Ok... now let's swing this whole thing back to God, and my never ending shifting theology (pardon me while I pop an asprin). I really felt a fair amount of fear about Jacob going under. I couldn't help at times envisioning the worst, and what would my response be. Unlike Job, I think bird and heavenward come to mind... that and the destruction of everything within a hundred yards of me. Somehow I do not picture that I would calmly say " the Lord giveth..... blah, blah, blah.....
I find it interesting how my thoughts on these matters have changed over the years. When I merely operated in theory, I was confident that I could answer like Job... this life was only temporary anyway. It seems I am more bonded to this life now, cause I could not now take it so lightly.
What was the deal with Job anyway?... was he that deep? or that simplistic? I tend to think it was simplicity. I have seen some very trusting people, whom I was convinced that they were so simply because they did not know any better. I am convinced that most people are able to survive their Christianity with a fair amount of happiness because they tend to give it very little critical thought.
The only other way I see that Job could have done it, is if he had a very real sense of the prescence of God. That could bring about that level of eternal trust..... This is what I do not have. If Jacob died, I could see no purpose for it... therefore it is random... and how do I trust a God who lets the chips fall where they may. Therefore... God must be in control. But that falls apart for me too. There seems to be too much damn randomness.
In the movie "Signs", Mel Gibsons character states that there are two kinds of people. Those who believe there are no conicidences, that everything is being orchestrated. Others feel that everything is chance, and that there is no one watching out for us. I am terrified at the possibility of the latter. However, I don't think he mentioned a third option. There is someone watching... but he is just doing that.... watching.
I loved in Dogma, when the woman who is "chosen" is talking to Bartleby. She says something to the effect "Remember when you were young... and you didn't question. God was up there, watching over us, and he had a plan, and everything was alright.What I wouldn't give to feel that way again". I think when Kevin Smith wrote that part, he tapped in to what a lot of people feel.
How did I get off on this tangent? Oh yes, Jacob. See, years ago, I would have believed that nothing could have happened to Jacob because I was on God's team; in fact, I was one of the favorites.
Today, I felt a chill and relief when Jacob came out of surgery. Was God's hand on my son today? Or did I just get lucky?
We took Jacob in to get tubes put in his ears today. It is a relatively minor surgery, in fact, it only took a few minutes. I knew that the only real risk in the operation was the anestisia. Ok... now let's swing this whole thing back to God, and my never ending shifting theology (pardon me while I pop an asprin). I really felt a fair amount of fear about Jacob going under. I couldn't help at times envisioning the worst, and what would my response be. Unlike Job, I think bird and heavenward come to mind... that and the destruction of everything within a hundred yards of me. Somehow I do not picture that I would calmly say " the Lord giveth..... blah, blah, blah.....
I find it interesting how my thoughts on these matters have changed over the years. When I merely operated in theory, I was confident that I could answer like Job... this life was only temporary anyway. It seems I am more bonded to this life now, cause I could not now take it so lightly.
What was the deal with Job anyway?... was he that deep? or that simplistic? I tend to think it was simplicity. I have seen some very trusting people, whom I was convinced that they were so simply because they did not know any better. I am convinced that most people are able to survive their Christianity with a fair amount of happiness because they tend to give it very little critical thought.
The only other way I see that Job could have done it, is if he had a very real sense of the prescence of God. That could bring about that level of eternal trust..... This is what I do not have. If Jacob died, I could see no purpose for it... therefore it is random... and how do I trust a God who lets the chips fall where they may. Therefore... God must be in control. But that falls apart for me too. There seems to be too much damn randomness.
In the movie "Signs", Mel Gibsons character states that there are two kinds of people. Those who believe there are no conicidences, that everything is being orchestrated. Others feel that everything is chance, and that there is no one watching out for us. I am terrified at the possibility of the latter. However, I don't think he mentioned a third option. There is someone watching... but he is just doing that.... watching.
I loved in Dogma, when the woman who is "chosen" is talking to Bartleby. She says something to the effect "Remember when you were young... and you didn't question. God was up there, watching over us, and he had a plan, and everything was alright.
How did I get off on this tangent? Oh yes, Jacob. See, years ago, I would have believed that nothing could have happened to Jacob because I was on God's team; in fact, I was one of the favorites.
Today, I felt a chill and relief when Jacob came out of surgery. Was God's hand on my son today? Or did I just get lucky?
Saturday, May 24, 2003
To smoke or not?
Went out with Brook, Lori, and Marianne tonight. We were at B & N till they closed and then headed to a pool hall in downtown Rochester. It was funny, an ex-quizzer came up to me. He looked like he was in college and wanted to say hello. He was suprised someone from DBQ was in there. Anyone who knows me, knows that I can ramble on and on about the state of Western Christianity. Seeing it there in detail though was a bit ironic. Why should a "christian" seem so out of place having a drink and a smoke in a pool hall? Would anyone in the New Testament have been concerned with that? If not, when did people start becoming concerned with it? If scripture had no problem with it, what were the motivations of those who began defining it as a problem?
Thursday, May 15, 2003
Went and saw the Matrix Reloaded with Jon, Brook, Sean, and Matt tonight. Just incredible. It is late, and I have to be up in a few hours for work - otherwise I could write all night about that movie. We had a great, but short conversation following the movie. Again, to bad I have to get ready for work.
Saturday, May 10, 2003
We had a great Birthday party for Kathryn today. Mary Lee planned a great party for her at Wolcott Farm. Most of the neighborhood kids came with their families. We were given a tour of the farm. It was really great, and Kathryn really had a great time.
Later, we went over to Chris and Sues to hang out for a bit. A great day!
Later, we went over to Chris and Sues to hang out for a bit. A great day!
Friday, May 02, 2003
Enjoy the Silence?
Brook and I caught a late midnight showing of Xmen 2 last night over at the Chesterfield. We had an hour or so to kill over at the Steak and Shake before it started. One of the things that we talked about, was the fact that our belief structure is mostly based on hearsay. Christians usually do not choose Christianity over some other religion.
Brook made a comment, something to the effect "The hardest thing to deal with in Christianity is the silence." I couldn't agree more. Job may have been reamed out by God for his presumption, but at least he was acknowledged. I think I begin to understand the psychology of negative attention more and more. Love me or hate me, but don't dismiss me.
I didn't notice the silence earlier in my Christianity, but it is at times now, nearly overwhelming. I can see what draws people to make connections, where there perhaps are none, in order get a sense of the prescence of God. If I believe that God arranged for me to get that job, or meet that person, then he is paying attention. He notices me. And, we have neatly come up with a safe explanation for the things that happen which we don't like. God is saying no, or he is teaching us something. If I get the job, it was the work of the Lord. If I don't get it, well, God just has other things in mind. The important piece though is that I am on his mind and he notices me.
I am not sure where this leaves me. The silence gets worse, not better. I remember in the movie, "Vampires" there was a Catholic priest who was going to exchange the life of some innocents for his eternal mortal life. When asked how he could do this, he replied " I have spent my whole life in the service of the church... I have never seen a miracle, never heard a voice, never had a vision. I am now near the end of my life, and the thought of death terrifies me."
I understand some of his sentiments. In my earlier years of Christianity, Jesus was coming back soon. Heck, for a while there, I almost thought college might be a waste of time since none of us were going to be here anyway. I didn't experience anything supernatural in my life, but I simply figured I wasn't experienced enough yet.. it would come.
However, here I am... twenty years of Christianity later - and I have never seen a miracle, never heard a voice, never had a vision. A few years ago, it occured to me that I may go through my whole life and never experience the voice of God. Beyond that, I may just be a cog in the wheel, or worse yet - maybe part of no plan whatsoever.
How then do I live out Christianity in light of these new perspectives? I am not sure. But the silence is deafining.
Brook made a comment, something to the effect "The hardest thing to deal with in Christianity is the silence." I couldn't agree more. Job may have been reamed out by God for his presumption, but at least he was acknowledged. I think I begin to understand the psychology of negative attention more and more. Love me or hate me, but don't dismiss me.
I didn't notice the silence earlier in my Christianity, but it is at times now, nearly overwhelming. I can see what draws people to make connections, where there perhaps are none, in order get a sense of the prescence of God. If I believe that God arranged for me to get that job, or meet that person, then he is paying attention. He notices me. And, we have neatly come up with a safe explanation for the things that happen which we don't like. God is saying no, or he is teaching us something. If I get the job, it was the work of the Lord. If I don't get it, well, God just has other things in mind. The important piece though is that I am on his mind and he notices me.
I am not sure where this leaves me. The silence gets worse, not better. I remember in the movie, "Vampires" there was a Catholic priest who was going to exchange the life of some innocents for his eternal mortal life. When asked how he could do this, he replied " I have spent my whole life in the service of the church... I have never seen a miracle, never heard a voice, never had a vision. I am now near the end of my life, and the thought of death terrifies me."
I understand some of his sentiments. In my earlier years of Christianity, Jesus was coming back soon. Heck, for a while there, I almost thought college might be a waste of time since none of us were going to be here anyway. I didn't experience anything supernatural in my life, but I simply figured I wasn't experienced enough yet.. it would come.
However, here I am... twenty years of Christianity later - and I have never seen a miracle, never heard a voice, never had a vision. A few years ago, it occured to me that I may go through my whole life and never experience the voice of God. Beyond that, I may just be a cog in the wheel, or worse yet - maybe part of no plan whatsoever.
How then do I live out Christianity in light of these new perspectives? I am not sure. But the silence is deafining.
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