Friday, September 26, 2008

Compare the Veeps

I agree with the point that Brook made in a previous comment section that, regardless of who takes the presidency, we are getting an upgrade. I believe Obama to have a greater vision for the future, but I can find things to like about McCain.

However, on the VP side, beside the fact that I would disagree with Sarah Palin on a lot -I feel she is out of her element. The very real possibility that McCain would leave her holding the reigns at some point during his term is quite unnerving. Here are videos of Biden and Palin in interviews.



Joe Biden on Real Time with Bill Maher

13 comments:

Brook said...

yeah, I think if Palin had run for president in the primary, most people, Dems and Republicans, would have laughed her out of the race within weeks, regardless of gender. The thought of her being in charge of this nation is scary. but then again, Dan Quale was once a VP...

Jon L. said...

Just to be fair... didn't Biden run actually run for president and basically get laughed out of the race?

Andrew said...

I think Biden clearly was not getting any traction, but in whose estimation was he laughed out?

When I saw this Palin interview, my mind went back 16 years to the Stockdale, Gore, Quayle debate (I think those were the three). Stockdale was an accomplished man, but it was apparent that he was not ready for what it took to run in the presidential race. When Palin was stumbling over very basic foreign policy questions, she sounded like a college student trying to BS her way though a written exam hoping that a few key words will disguise the fact that she has no idea how to answer the question.

However, I guess everyone should get a mulligan, so we will see what she does in the debate next week.

Brook said...

yeah, even Giuliani, who probably did the worst of the primary lot (my memory fails me regarding that race at the moment) was taken as a serious candidate. I'm not equating losing badly with being a joke. I think if Palin had run, people would literally think she must be joking. And that's not to say past "jokes" running for office haven't been successful...the Back to the Future line "Ronald Reagan?!? The ACTOR?!!?" comes to mind when remembering a bunch like Arnold The Terminator, wrestler Jesse "The Body" Ventura, and former leprechan Ross Perot. A lot that drew more than their fair share of "you've GOT to be kidding!" from the general public in their respective races. But Palin as President?!!?...you've GOT to be kidding...

Jon L. said...

Biden's presidential campaign was largely a joke, and (to his credit) he made fun of it in the primary debates. There was one debate where he managed to make everyone laugh and get ticked-off at him all at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpPR4VPt47I&feature=related

He can be somewhat entertaining as a Senator (where he can get away with making stereotyping comments that others can't), but I think it caused him to not be taken seriously as a pres/vp candidate.

All I am saying is that I find it highly entertaining that people are freaking out so much over Palin while (all of a sudden)assigning Biden a level of respect that he has never really had.

Brook said...

hmm...after watching that clip (and others of him, like the one word answer bit), I'd say your interpretation was different from mine, and maybe it's a case of "you get what you're looking for". Making jokes during a campaign the way he was, in my opinion, shows a level of mastery and confidence on whatever topic is being commented on. I think this is very different from being considered a joke of a candidate himself. That whole "laughing with you not at you" thing. It seemed to me that Biden was drawing people into laughing with him, whereas Palin is being laughed at. whether you think his answers are sufficient to the question or not, or whether you agree with him or think he's off his rocker, he is in complete control of the responses he gives. Palin, on the other hand, often seems to be fumbling to find an answer, often to some basic though tough questions.

Jon L. said...

"...he is in complete control of the responses he gives."

Are we talking about the same person?

Not trying to pick sides here; I don't think the one is as scary as advertised and the other has a track record that should be considered.

Brook said...

You'll have to be more specific in your criticism, because so far I'm not seeing what you're seeing. and I'll have to admit to not having listened to Biden speak a whole lot. I'm basing my answers on the clips y'all are giving me (as well as a few recent media interviews and clips of speeches that have been on the teevee), which is probably more than all the public appearance footage available of Palin combined since her nomination...

perhaps I can ammend my statement to at least say "in as much control as anyone else has been, perhaps with the exception of Obama the speech king himself". Bonus points for the use of Youtube clips to back your criticism. :-)

Jon L. said...

Again, these are not meant to be criticisms so much as to say that Biden should not get an automatic "presidential" pass.

Anyway, I don't have much time, but here are a few things that I could remember seeing or reading.

Biden had to drop out of the 1988 presidential primaries because of a plagiarism scandel brought by Dukakis and co. It was somewhat exagerated, but it undercut his campaign. Here is an overview link.
http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2008/08/26/the-biden-plagiarism-scandal/

Here is a link to a rant he gave in the Senate against the war, the surge, etc. Whether you agree with him or not (I happen to disagree with a number of his foriegn policy statements in this), he seems barely on the edge of control. Maybe he should be a talk show host...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1op8vwF5UA

Here he is talking to Petraeus about the surge, trying to get Petraeus to make a 1-10 rating. Again, whether you agree or not, some would find his mannerisms less than professional, especially compared with Petraeus's mannerisms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZhoz9uBPFY&feature=related

Here is is infamous 7-eleven comment. At the least it is a stereotype...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIT3jUrNTX0

This one is simply too close for comfort, not to mention he is telling the person what she wants to hear (not what his policy is).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ55UzAsp6M

This one is great simply for the facial expressions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulJXJUjAKLk&feature=related

Here is Biden's great answer to Brian William's question in a debate earlier this year. It does, however, show his overall reputation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XberX_t-WvI

This one is also from 1988 when the press was questioning his academic credentials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyEqyYUGk4I&feature=related

I won't go into his activity on the Judiciary committee and his grandstanding with nominees, which is where I was most aware of him in the past. And, again, it is not a total criticism of him; he has himself gone through an unfair wringer with the press in '88. If he ends up being vp, he might do well. If he is VP, I hope he learns to moderate things and control his public comments.

Adam Gonnerman said...

Gov. Palin doesn't seem like a serious candidate to me. She was chosen for her gender, conservatism and relatively clean background (except for troopergate).

Andrew said...

I watched his one on the Senate floor. I guess it must be my bias, but I just see an impassioned speech.

I will be curious what Palin does this week in the debate. If she holds her own, fine, we will forget the bad interview. I have heard many defenders of hers state that the Couric interview only went THAT way because Couric is a liberal... Sheesh!

I am no fan of Cheney, but if Bush passed on, I think he could do the job.... I may not like what he does with it, but he could do it. Now I only have the Couric interview so far to go by (they seem to be hiding Palin or something) but THAT interview makes me think she doesn't have clue one about what to do in the Presidency.

Brook said...

Jon, I think I can see why you say Biden doesn't seem to be in control...he is (as Andrew says) a very passionate speaker (something that killed Howard Dean's race) and can fly off and say things he (and his party / running mate) may come to regret later, or at least cringe a bit (like that 7-11 / donut shop comment. that was great, in an "I can't believe he just said that" way!). And I think this is a different kind of not-in-control than what I see with Palin. He is never struggling for an answer, and perhaps sometimes should bite down on the answer he's about to give. Palin, on the other hand, seems to be struggling to find something to say. She comes across as clueless about certain issues, and I think this is what freaks people out (again, Andrew summed it up well). I'd be horrified if Cheney became president, but not because I don't think he could handle the job, I just wouldn't like the way he would probably handle it. Maybe you feel the same way about Biden (I probably do to a degree also). I don't doubt his ability to handle the responsibility. I highly doubt Palin's ability to handle it. I don't know very many people who could handle it...it takes something of an uncommon person, and it is her very "hockey-mom" common-ness that I think is scary in relation to the presidency.

Jon L. said...

I don't think I would be "horrified" if any one of the bunch gets in office. Part of that is the process of getting older and having enough problems of my own to worry about. Part of it also is making a conscious decision years ago (partly based on conversations with Andrew) not to base decisions and opinions on fear. Both the far left & right have used fear as a tool. It plays to human nature.

In this case, the "cartooning" of Palin has been overly intense. Part of it has to do with the instant fame. Part of it has to do with her performance in a couple of the interviews. But a lot of it has to do with fear: fear of someone who is a wierd mix of ground-breaking, conservative and popular.

Unfortunately, because of the hype, you can almost write the post-debate analysis now. If she does poorly, the left will say, "See, she just isn't smart enough and has no experience." The right will say, "She has just buckled under the extreme pressure." If she does well, the left will say her answers sounded memorized and that she just had good coaching. The right will annoint her as "the one" and will treat her in the same way they criticize Obama worship.

Biden will probably do what he always does in debates. Have a few good laughs with a few uncomfortable gaffes. He is very good at sounding like he knows his material and passionately believes it, even if it is different than what he said last week. He is kind of the ultimate politician.

It should be a fascinating debate. The experienced insider vs. the upstart outsider. With Obama/McCain, we knew ahead of time what we were going to get. This one, the post-debate spin is easy to predict, but the debate itself? Nobody knows.

Related Posts with Thumbnails