Showing posts with label Religion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Religion. Show all posts

Friday, July 05, 2024

Religious Liberty?

I believe in religious liberty.  If you want to worship one god or a pantheon, you should be able to do that in peace.

As a teacher, I believe in neutrality.  I want every student and their family to feel supported by me regardless of their household faith.  I feel the best way to do that is to keep my own cards close to the vest.

But...

If you force me to pick up a Bible in my classroom... 

Understand, Christian Nationalist, I know your Bible better than you do.  In your churches, Bible studies, and Sunday schools, you have been given a carefully curated version of scripture.  There are 31,000 verses in the Bible but only a small fraction of those are ever read from the pulpit.  You are used to your scriptures being read in a devotional manner.  They are presented in a way to support your narrative.

But outside the four walls of your sanctuary, the Bible is read critically.  It is no longer read through your filter.  We start reading stories about a sensitive deity who slaughters kids because his prophet was teased for his male-pattern baldness.  You encounter a God who insists on human sacrifice before he will bless the harvest.

Using political power to force-feed your scriptures outside your church may cause you to reap the whirlwind.


Thursday, February 15, 2024

Historical Jesus?

Someone asked me if I believed in a historical Jesus-

"I think there probably was a Jesus... but everything we know of him is 2nd hand, generations later, motivated retells. So, I take the stories for what they are and what they say... and don't worry too much when Jesus contradicts himself or the Pauline epistles head in different directions.

In the end, those who scream most loudly about the Bible being the "Word of God" usually have a very thin knowledge of how it came about or what it contains. In my sect, Evangelicals, we would regurgitate the same 500 verses annually, while pretty much ignoring the other 30,000.

Ultimately, I think most folks find the Jesus they want in the Bible. I have friends of all different economic, social, and political persuasions... and funny enough, all of them quote Jesus and claim to be followers. Jesus has many faces."

Sunday, January 07, 2024

Abraham Failed the Test

I wrote this in a discussion about Abraham and Issac 10 years ago-

First, I don't think the event actually happened... It is a moral fable which a nomadic people told to make a point. If you get emotionally invested in it being real, you will probably miss the author's intended point... as you would if you felt Apollo was the negligent party with Asclepius by letting him drive the chariot in the first place.

But let's assume it all happened as it is written. First, we may error in assuming Abraham viewed Isaac the way modern parents view their children. Abraham most likely viewed Isaac as his most treasured possession... but still a possession. If it came down to it, he would save his own rear end before he would save Issac; in the same way any of us would sacrifice any possession we have to save our own skin.

However, I would look at it this way. What if the god Jehovah really wanted Abraham to say no? He is the most powerful being in the universe... he always gets what he wants... but he has no equal, so he lacks relationships. Here he is trying to forge one with his creation... but he can't get around his... imposing personality. He can't help but feel his relationship with Abraham isn't really a friendship... and it was proved that day. He had Abraham's obedience but that is a poor substitute for friendship.  He knows Abraham fears him... and this leaves him disappointed. 

God was like the bully of the playground who one day realizes that he has a big posse but no friends. He is surrounded by sycophants and those who are afraid of him. What he yearned for was for Abraham to say no. That is what friends do... sometimes they help protect us from ourselves. A true friend would never acquiesce to such a demand.

I don't think Abraham passed the test that day. He failed his son, and he failed the god who wanted to be his friend.

Monday, January 01, 2024

Conservative Faith Can Never Bring Peace

"'People kill for money or for power,' DeMello's Holy One teaches. 'But the most ruthless murderers are those who kill for their ideas.' It is not belief that causes war, it is believers who refuse to allow others to hold ideas other than their own." - Joan Chittister

This is why when you look through history, there are not examples of successful conservative religious societies.  They cannot tolerate other religions.  There is no peaceful coexistence.  Even if all are converted to the same faith, the orthodox will discover heretics.  Conservative religion despises, yet needs, the 'other'.

In my last years as a Christian, I had taken to announcing questions and conclusions I was coming to regarding my faith.  On one occasion, I got a retort on FB from one of my pastors.

Me: I believe Christianity competes with other religions, and that is a mistake.

Pastor:  REALLY? Jesus said, “go and make disciples of every nation.” Guess what his disciples did. They went out and made disciples of Jews, Gentiles, Idol worshippers, and people of all religions. That’s not competition, that’s obedience to Jesus. We Christians still follow Jesus’ commands, whether you think that is a mistake or not.

Our church was not a particularly heavy-handed conservative fellowship but showing an aversion to conversion was enough to categorize me outside the faith.  

There is no peace in conservative faith while unbelievers and folks of other religions remain.  Presently, "obedience to Jesus" when converting others is not violent but it has not always been so.  We can look around the world at conservative religions and see that they don't play well with others.  

I don't suspect America's conservative faithful would fare any better should they acquire real power.  Remember this, moderate believer, when you assume that voting for a conservative Christian is a good thing.  History and present-day global examples tell us otherwise.  There are legions of Christians in America who would use the force of law to make you obedient to their vision of 'Jesus'.

Sunday, August 20, 2023

No Ulterior Motives

This meme was recently posted by a pastor friend of mine on Facebook.  Beneath it were these comments:

"One day they will wish they hadn’t denied Him!"

"I wouldn't want to be the one that would deny that our Lord does not exist I love my Lord and I know he loves me 💖💖"

In a similar vein, I was chatting with a former believing colleague on a thread who was trying to "reconvert" me.  I was polite but made it clear I just wasn't buying what he was selling.  At that point, he became very angry and launched into a string of personal attacks and finished with the old threat of "You will be dead one day, soon, and meet face to face with Almighty God Himself!" and that he feared for my soul.

This is fairly typical of the believing sect I came from.  Common to their belief is that anyone not of their sect should "fear" their life ending in unbelief.

But I don't.

First, because I believe we are biological and that is all there is.  One day I will die.  All my biological functions will cease.  I will have no awareness after that.  I will be gone.  Contrary to the statement of Augustine, I have no ulterior motives for this belief.

Second, if there turns out to be something beyond this life, I can't imagine it is anything like what they have put forth.  Their take is simply unreasonable and unloving.  Perhaps an eternal, all-powerful being really is that petty and insecure... but in that case, my former tribe will ultimately be no more safe than anyone else.

Rather, if it turns out there is something out there, beyond our moment of death, I think it will be something wonderful... for everyone.

Wednesday, August 02, 2023

Pratt The Raptor

"I know why it's the case, it's because the internet runs on clicks, so if half the country is reading about how brave they are for knowing the earth is flat it's not like the other half is gonna click on articles about how round earth is, they're going to click on lists of 17 things to do when your uncle thinks the earth is flat. Because that's the thing we'd like to learn, that's the ****ing earth shape that's still unknown to us. We fall into a trap of essentially studying bad studying, in hopes that we can Pratt the raptor." ~ Dan Harmon

I love the phrase "Pratt the Raptor." I agree with Dan that many arguments on the net can be pointless and just serve to entangle yourself in a mess that the "Raptor" enjoys.

However, those arguments CAN help turn the studio audience. One of the things that helped snap me out of religion's spell was watching and listening to those conversations when I was a believer. I cringed at the behavior displayed by the apologists of my faith. I was embarrassed by their lack of listening, their passive aggression, their belittling attitudes, and their straight-up insults.

Yeah, you're probably never going to Pratt the Raptor ... but the folks out in the stands are another story. 

Monday, June 05, 2023

Hell is a Path of Fear and Division

This is one of the most corruptive factors of Hell theology.  It puts a wall between neighbors.  The reason Evangelicals have such a well-defined and separate subculture is because they don't love their neighbors... they fear their neighbors.  Secularists, unbelievers, non-Christians, and people of other faiths (or lesser forms of Christianity) are good for only one thing - conversion.

ANY church that has Hell in their theology is on a path of fear and division.  They may have great coffee and children's programs.  They may do some fine local charity work.  Their pastor may talk about love and acceptance repeatedly.  But in the end, they will draw you into an insular community that cannot love people beyond their faith.

Ask the Pastor to give you a straight answer, "Do you believe God will eternally punish anyone who does not become a member of your faith?"  If he or she does not answer with a firm "No", leave immediately.

Before even getting that far, check their website under their Beliefs.  Churches often like to save their Hell talk for AFTER you join... but you can usually find it buried in their statements of belief.

Thursday, June 01, 2023

Into the Trash Can

It is a testament to the grooming and indoctrination that children are subjected to that the moral horrors of this story do not occur to most American believers.  I actually spent decades siding with Jehovah on this story.

Growing up learning Greek Mythology, I was very aware of the human frailties of the gods on Mount Olympus.  They were petty, cruel, and often downright nuts.  Yet, I couldn't connect the dots for that awareness with my god.  I would read passages of scripture where Jehovah/Yahweh was being as awful as any Greek deity... but I just couldn't put 2 and 2 together.  I could spot the holes in other religions easily... but remained oblivious to my own.

The religious scholar, Bart Ehrman, has an explanation for this.  He says it is because we read the holy books of other religions objectively but we read our own devotionally.  That hit me like a bolt from Thor's hammer when I heard it.  I decided to try reading my Bible objectively.

Whoa, Nellie!  I had a Damascus road experience.  The scales fell from my eyes.  It was like reading a completely different book.  For the first time, it seemed really problematic that blood was painted over doorposts so that God would know which children NOT to kill.  How on earth had that not bothered me before?

For weeks after that revelation, I poured over scripture finding insults to humanity I had never "seen".  My god was just like all the other gods I had read about - just as petty, cruel, and often downright nuts.

It has now been over a decade since I have really read my bible.  While cleaning recently, I found it, dust-covered, underneath a dresser.  The Amplified translation, red cloth case, page after page highlighted with notes in the margins.  Unceremoniously, I took it outside and dumped it in the trash can.

I know folks still find use in reading it objectively.  Like the Greek Myths, there is value to be found when read as a story.  But for me, having been so indoctrinated, the greater value was in a clean break.  My moral compass can be encouraged and refined by books that do not, in my case, have so much baggage and negative history.

Monday, April 10, 2023

Before You Speak

I recently heard a believer state a commonly used position when arguing their point -

"Don't be mad at me, be mad at God. I'm just telling you what he says." 

Of course, I know other believers who use scripture to maintain a view opposite that of the speaker.  People bring their history, culture, politics, even their personality... to their reading and study. I don't think anyone gets a clean read... of anything.

In the end, believers draw different messages out of the Bible based on who they are. So, I maintain that everyone just needs to take responsibility for their own arguments.  As King Leonidas said,

"Before you speak, Persian, know that in Sparta, everyone, even a king's messenger, is held accountable for the words of his voice."

Friday, March 03, 2023

Rare Things Happen All The Time

Almost every day, I hear believers thank a deity for some happy circumstance or coincidence.  The fact that they got the job that they wanted, or that parking spot, or a reduction on some bill, is evidence of divine assistance.

Possibly.

At one time, I too saw little evidences of my god all around me.  I tabulated a number of such things when convincing myself to move out to Utah twenty years ago.

But I have been out of the faith now for a decade.  The interesting thing is that just as many happy coincidences happen to me now as ever did.  In reality, every person, regardless of faith status, gets their share of good and bad happenstance.

I now see all of that dot-connecting as a desire for meaning.  It may be great that I got that job... but if GOD got me that job, then I am significant.  I matter. I am seen.

But, that kind of meaning is exterior... and as with all such forms that give one a sense of worth, that route is fleeting.  

Friends and family, jobs and money... even gods... can only serve as a band-aid.  Eventually, alone with your own thoughts, you have to create your worth and meaning.


Sunday, February 05, 2023

Me, Me, Me

Scrolling my newsfeed on Sunday morning often brings up a live church service in progress or a link to one.  Today I listened for a moment.  The same stuff I used to hear... but a critical ear changes so many things.

For example, this morning, the pastor quoted Oswald Chambers, who said that believers are often so devoted to their ideas about Jesus that they miss devotion to Jesus himself.

But all we have are ideas.  Believers can read the same text but walk away with very different ideas.  There are literally tens of thousands of Christian denominations.

So what does a statement, by a Pastor, encouraging a believer to doubt their ideas about Jesus accomplish?  Only the most open denominations would actually guide a congregant to deconstruct their beliefs... and this congregation was clearly Evangelical.

So what then?

It tills the ground for the Pastor's ideas about Jesus to be planted.  Whether explicitly or implicitly, the goal is to get the congregation on his page.  Like Smith in the 2nd Matrix movie, church leadership (with few exceptions) wants to replace your code with theirs.  Your ideas about God with their ideas.

And for many congregants, they understand that is the price of membership.  But just be clear that your ideas about God are being replaced with their ideas... but they are just ideas... and theirs carry no more inherent weight than yours.

Monday, January 30, 2023

A Relationship with Jesus

If you travel in Evangelical circles, you will often hear them say things like "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship" or "I'm not religious, I have a relationship with Jesus".

But, of course, it is a religion and, no, it isn't a relationship.  I have always felt, even when I was a believer, that this sort of language was an attempt to set themselves apart from other religions and even those they consider lesser versions of Christianity.

Anyway, I wrote this as a comment on a thread some years back and I think it sums up why the word relationship, in this context, doesn't work -

I have personal relationships with real live persons. We talk, and the conversation occurs on both sides. We do stuff together and there is interaction.

If I think I have a relationship with someone because I have read their book, or heard their music, or looked at their art - that is only occurring in my head. I have watched many Quentin T. movies and listened to scores of interviews with him... so much so, it feels like I know him. But I don't and he doesn't know me. It is a flight of fancy to imagine otherwise.

When Christians state that they have a relationship with God, they are using that word in such a way that it is rendered meaningless. Even if we imagine for a moment that there is a god that made the universe and he wrote a book for us to read, we could appreciate his art and read his writings... but we still would not know him and we would not have a "relationship" with him.

It seems to me the best thing a Christian could say in this regard is that they are a Christian because they work at following the teachings and life of Christ.


Monday, January 16, 2023

Back in the Box

"You need more faith!!"  is a common refrain in fundamental religious circles.  It is the cure shouted at every problem.  Issues of health, finances, questions about life... everything is about pushing you back into the framework.

To get back in, you have to have to cut off part of yourself.  Your pain, your questions, your desires... all have to be made smaller.

Over the decades, life gets more basic as they repeat the same verses, the same dictums.  Nothing new, no growth... just endless contraction.  The world looks stranger and stranger as it continues to grow and expand.  Eventually, the fundamentalist struggles to find good in anything or anyone outside their sect.

Saturday, December 17, 2022

Bring Them To Church?

I read this on Facebook:

"Bring them to church‼️‼️ Saturate their lives with the Word of God. Even if they lay on the floor. Even if they need 437 goldfish and a sucker to be quiet. Even if you stand in the back swaying back and forth holding them. Even when it’s hard. Even when your row looks like a small hurricane just came through. Bring them to church. Let them see you worship. Let them see you pray. Let them see you running toward the Savior ... because if they don’t see and learn these things from you, who are they going to learn them from? 

The world will teach them it’s not a priority. The world will teach them it’s okay to lay out, not to pick up their Bibles. The world will direct them so far off course, confuse them, and misinform them that just being “good” is enough. The world won’t teach them about Jesus. That’s our job. 

Bring them to church‼️‼️"

Oh... the messages of conservative/fundie Christianity. 🤢🤢🤮  When they start using the phrase "the world" as a pejorative, you know you are about to enter a dark episode of the Twilight Zone.

"The world will direct them so far off course, confuse them, and misinform them that just being “good” is enough."

There is so much wrong with this sentence... and it sits at the core of the unhealthiness of this form of Christianity.

First, it is an invitation to a lifelong mental hampster wheel.  Jesus said that his yoke is easy and his burden light... but this perspective is anything but.  It keeps the believer in a perpetual state of feeling they don't measure up, that they have never done enough, and even what they have done is somehow tainted.

Second, it makes "good" suspect.  A believer of this stripe gets to negate the work of their fellow humans.  In my faith community, the work of great people doing great deeds was routinely brushed aside as having little value.  A life of character formation founded on good behavior and good deeds often gets replaced with vacuous piety. 

Third, the insecurity of never being good enough becomes a bludgeon that leadership uses to keep congregations in line. 

Lastly, it creates a chasm that divides the believer from their neighbors.  Under this thinking, the believer really only feels comfortable around those in their faith- as "the world" (everyone else) will only try to confuse them, misinform them, and direct them off course.  Responding to life this way sets up a vicious circle of behaviors and attitudes in the believer that make them want to separate themselves from their neighbors... and makes their neighbors happy to let them do so.

And then these believing parents encourage one another to drag their children into this.

Sunday, November 20, 2022

Why? Why? Why?

 

Piper mentions that non-believers have better "tools" for morality at their disposal... but he doesn't get into it.  I'd be curious about what he thinks those tools are.

One of the things I noticed as I was exiting faith is that I used the word "Why" a lot.
 
Why do I do this?  Why do I think this?  Why, why, why?  

I was like a 5-year-old again.

It occurred to me that I really didn't have much of an ethical system... I just had a bunch of mores that were often particular to my subculture.  Upon inspection, most of them had nothing to do with ethics, and much of my life guilt was completely non-sensical.

In my subculture of Evangelicalism, "morality" was a big deal (not so much in the Trump era), and we talked a good game... but in truth, there was little moral instruction.

Take, for example, a sermon I heard by a popular Evangelical preacher.  He was assuring the congregation there was a Hell and everyone but "the saved" are going there.  He went on to say, "If there is no Hell, I'm going to the strip club tonight!"

This is a common thought line among the religious... if it weren't for the "judgment of god," I would behave completely differently.

That isn't morality... it is obedience.  It is social pressure.  It isn't a true belief in right and wrong - and it collapses fairly easily when challenged.

This is why every other week, another mega-church leader is caught with his hand in the cookie jar.  Jerry Falwell Jr. didn't have an ethical system he lived by, he had social pressures he adhered to.

I often tell my students that they are not being a friend if they allow someone to copy their work.  It is the equivalent of watching someone else exercise and expecting to get fit.  When the moment comes for them to demonstrate their ability with a math problem, they will be unprepared.

Religion often leaves people morally and ethically unprepared... because they have been content to copy someone else's answers to life's important questions.

Friday, July 22, 2022

For Me, Not For Thee

A Facebook group I am in is arguing over religious freedoms presently.  Someone had posted a Christian prayer.  Some folks said it was off-topic and perhaps should be posted in a religiously themed group.  Others argued for free speech and religious freedoms.

Here is the part I saw coming a mile off- Shortly after the prayer post, someone posted the Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple. Predictably, many of the same folks defending the prayer had the dead opposite reaction to the 7 tenets. Comments such as "small-minded", "loser", "grow the phuck up", "shame on you", "disturbing", etc.

I don't know what the real-life percentages are... but in my experience, those who most often shout for religious liberties are usually only doing so for their sub-group.  They have little real interest in religious liberty as a fundamental right... rather, they use it selectively as a shield to protect their interests.

The most perfect example of the 180 people can do came from a person who said,

"To all that criticized the religious post… I mean seriously, couldn’t you just scroll by?"

However, on the Satanic Temple post, she commented,

"You should grow the phuck up, you’re behaving like a spoiled child. Shame on you"

Moving the goal posts is a real and regular thing.

Saturday, July 02, 2022

You Terrible Sinner

This is the kind of stuff one regularly gets in a Conservative Christian bible study or Sunday school.  These ideas are routinely preached.  On the last Sunday my family attended church, the pastor made such proclamations from the pulpit.

Who are you... really?  A TERRIBLE sinner.  And yet, God loves you anyway.  You should be so grateful.

Similar things are said by the drunk dude in a ragged t-shirt clutching a belt over a whimpering child.

I used to think of myself as a sinner. I thought of how often I let God down. I believed wrong behavior was my defining characteristic. 

Then I discovered it was all contrived. Once out of the faith, I realized it is massively infrequent when I cause pain or harm to another human being.... in fact, most of my day is spent giving good turns and encouragement to everyone around me.... yet I spent decades believing there was something inherently wrong with me.

I have covered this topic on my blog a few times in the past.  A Christian wrote me, expressing sorrow that this has been my experience in Church.  They told me Jesus loves me and is not the god I had been told about.

I went to their church website and listened to a random sermon.  The pastor went on and on about our sin and that it is only through Jesus that we can become acceptable to God.

Like a battered and bruised woman telling the cops that her husband really does love her, this Christian could not help but declare God innocent - all the while enduring abuse from the pulpit.

Saturday, June 18, 2022

Do You Believe In God?

Abraham Piper addresses why, "Do you believe in God?" isn't a great question.

A popular god here in the States is Jesus.  When people ask the above question here, they usually mean him.  However, someone might just as easily mean Vishnu or Thor... and this could affect the answer.

But even if they meant Jesus... does that really help?

I have often argued that the reason Jesus is so popular here in the states is because his name has been franchised.  Catholics, Mormons, Quakers, Evangelicals, liberals, conservatives, and moderates all claim Jesus.

Do you think there are some pretty different visions of Jesus across that spectrum?

My brothers and mom are all believers in Jesus... and just amongst the three of them, there are fairly substantial differences.  If you got their three versions of Jesus together in the same room, you would never mistake them for the same person.

As Mr. Wednesday said in American Gods-
"For every belief, every branch, every denomination... they see a different face when they close their eyes to pray."

Of course, I think Piper is being a little cagey.  The real question being asked is, "Do you believe in MY god?"

For me, that answer is the same regardless of who asks it... no.

BUT, beyond that are questions like what do you prioritize, what do you value, what fills your soul?
People are never going to agree on their gods... but there are a lot of places the Venn diagrams of our lives overlap.

 

@abrahampiper Not believing in *your* god doesn’t make anyone an atheist. 🤷‍♀️ #atheism #god #nonreligious #exchristian #exfundie #exvangelical #philosophy #illogical #logicalfallacy #loadedquestion ♬ original sound - Abraham Piper


 

Thursday, June 16, 2022

A Constitution Without Error

A couple years back, a friend of mine was pleased to hear that they read the Constitution on the floor of Congress. This friend waves and wears the flag a lot while trumpeting our need to be Constitutional.

I agreed that it was a good move... except that they literally skipped over the bad stuff like it wasn't there.

"Bad stuff?! What bad stuff?!!!" She was offended. I might have well as said The Bible had bad parts. 

I told her that they skipped the part in article one section two where the three-fifths clause is discussed. This condoned slavery and stated that some humans are inherently inferior (as opposed to all being created equal).

The conversation stopped there and I was defriended not long after. 🙂

Her way of viewing politics is similar to how many Evangelicals process their faith - strong loyalty to ideas on which they have sketchy knowledge.

There is nothing wrong with having sketchy knowledge. We all have areas where we lack depth of information. However, there is something in certain believers and "patriots" that cause them to form rather large and loud belief structures on foundations of sand.

Many Evangelicals will get angry/offended if anyone insinuates the Bible is not perfect - yet, they have never actually entirely read it (often only a mere fraction). They have never learned HOW the Bible came about. They just KNOW it is perfect.

In the end, these steadfast declarations are not made to demonstrate knowledge but to display loyalty. All the Bible and flag-waving is like cheering for one's team in a stadium. And similar to that crowd behavior, every call made for our team is good. Anything called against "us" is booed.

Wednesday, March 30, 2022

Viewing God Properly

This is a response I gave to a friend on a Facebook thread when he challenged the notion someone of even being an atheist.  He shared an article that stated that atheists fail when they simply reject the vision of God they have contrived and are not open to other visions of God. When folks on the thread did not want to engage in that line of reasoning, the response was "As usual, atheists have no answers when questioned."

I get some version of that rather often, typically from liberal believers.  Anyway, here was my response:

The problem is that they are rather specious questions. Where is the scientific experiment conducted by Leprechaun-deniers that definitively proved that "There are no Leprechauns?” How did they define the Leprechaun whom they state doesn't exist? (I quoted the article, substituting Leprechaun for God)

I do not lose any sleep over not answering such questions. If someone wants to feel they scored points on me when I don’t, enjoy. I have no motivation to spend the effort to believe in Leprechauns when there is no reason to. I don’t believe in Leprechauns… but if I saw one, I would be happy to have been wrong and I think the event would be amazing. It is the same with deities.

To speak of God properly…” Mr. Hart shows he is playing with loaded dice from his first statement. In this sense, he is no different from the varied other theists I have encountered in my life. From the Hell, Fire, and Brimstone preacher, to the pentecostal healer, to the prosperity pastor… they all want to tell me how to view God “properly”. Even believers whom I respect such as Borg, Spong, and Rohr have their own take on viewing God “properly”. In the end, I don’t think these people are telling me about God, they are telling me about themselves… but that is another thread.

I once had an ex-Mormon friend of mine who said, “Mormonism really is a beautiful belief structure… but you have to stay within their box of thinking to make it work.” Many of the arguments made for theism, or against atheism, have this kind of set-up… you have to accept certain premises in order for the argument to work. If someone tells me – “Here is what Atheism is!” and it doesn’t line up with how I think about my atheism, all of their arguments thereafter are meaningless. (I think the reverse is also true, so I rarely go after someone on their theism and stick to my problems with harmful dogma.)

It is similar to when my 2nd-grade students want to tell me a joke/riddle that starts with a question. When I answer in a way they had not anticipated, they start over and instruct me on how to answer “properly”.  In order for the joke/riddle to work, I have to give the right response. When it is over, they are gleeful with their joke/riddle telling skills and I play along, but it is a contrivance.

Any argument where I have to accept a very narrow (or very vague) premise from the get-go in order for the argument to work is a contrivance. Such arguments work for the already convinced, but to those outside the acceptance of the foundational premise, it simply doesn’t sell.

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