tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post9193712693566014351..comments2024-03-04T07:45:15.155-07:00Comments on Hackman's Musings: Christian... But Tainted...Andrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-45521007952154837782011-07-19T12:36:16.051-06:002011-07-19T12:36:16.051-06:00The problem you describe is so bad and so widespre...The problem you describe is so bad and so widespread that one Evangelical who talks to Mormons advises them to seek out Wesleyan-type churches (i.e. Methodist) if they decide to leave Mormonism, and skip the Evangelicals. I'd post the link if I could remember where I found it. Personally, I attend Community of Christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-36815196084614540852011-03-27T13:11:24.468-06:002011-03-27T13:11:24.468-06:00Bruce - It is interesting to think about how one h...Bruce - It is interesting to think about how one handles difference. I think of it this way - My daughter has a teacher who is Mormon, and when it comes to covering Utah history, he is decidedly biased - "Church" leaders never do anything wrong. Now, I can see some folks wanting to pull their children from his class because they do not want their child hearing a pro-Mormon view. However, I would just rather have a conversation with my daughter about biases - How her teacher probably is not being intentionally misleading, but from his perspective he really "can't" see it any other way. It would seem to me that I would be creating a second "bias" by not allowing her to hear his perspective.<br /><br />I think the reason many churches and Christians would have problem with this approach is because they would then have to acknowledge that their view is a perspective.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-6690626117516753502011-03-23T19:32:29.915-06:002011-03-23T19:32:29.915-06:00Gotta love the " I am going to tell on you&qu...Gotta love the " I am going to tell on you" approach this person took with you.<br /><br />That said I was that kind of pastor if people heard about heretics spouting unbiblical (different from why I taught) teachings I wanted to know about it. I would confront the person and insist they change their beliefs. Things got real nasty when I became a Calvinist.<br /><br />It grieves me greatly to think about how I abused the conscience of good people. Sadly many churches demand uniformity of brief above all else. <br /><br />I am longer a Christian, but if I was I most certainly could not go to a church that lorded over people like you mention in this post . I realize at a certain level something must be believed but I am not sure how a church should deal with those who have a differing opinion. There is a huge difference between evangelicalism and universalism. I am not certain that the huge gap between the two can be bridged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-83323031014612749572009-09-28T22:17:52.876-06:002009-09-28T22:17:52.876-06:00Welcome Cub!
Sorry to hear about your difficultie...Welcome Cub!<br /><br />Sorry to hear about your difficulties. The more I learn about other faiths and religions, the more I see our glaring similarities. :)Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-61454567111692965392009-09-28T12:44:06.334-06:002009-09-28T12:44:06.334-06:00Cool blog - I just stumbled on it today. I find my...Cool blog - I just stumbled on it today. I find myself at an interesting juncture in my life. I am a tainted Christian - of the Mormon flavor. I was recently fired (released in Mormon jargon) from a position teaching young men because I told them that they have the choice whether or not to perform certain duties. Apparently, this is false doctrine because before we tell the boys that they have a choice, we have to tell them about the dire consequences of failing to keep God's commandments.<br /><br />I was amazed how quickly the organization acted to stamp out perceived heresy. It's weird to see how a church distances itself from a "heretic" rather than loving the heretic in the way Jesus would. I see this as God's way of guiding me away from a shame-based approach to spirituality to into a life of God's love.Cubnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-16650629356657551362009-08-12T09:28:28.758-06:002009-08-12T09:28:28.758-06:00Andrew,
My answer to your question is "yes&q...Andrew,<br /><br />My answer to your question is "yes".Redleftyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04834798382800790723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-65622830484532734402009-08-11T14:50:20.643-06:002009-08-11T14:50:20.643-06:00Red- I too have been loosing the "fear" ...Red- I too have been loosing the "fear" of other viewpoints over the years. I think this has something to do with letting go of the need to control. Also, I was unclear whether you wanted to hear more on the topics in my letter, or my thoughts on hers?<br /><br />Curmudgeon - I think that inability to have civil discussions of belief is because of our tendency to mislabel belief for fact. I think if we could distinguish better, we could listen easier.<br /><br />Mystical - I put off writing this for a while cause I'd rather not use people I know in a critical light; but as you say, it encapsulates succinctly a very large problem that exists in Christianity.<br /><br />Greg - I agree. I sometimes don't realize how strongly or weakly I feel about something until I have had a chance to say it outloud with input from others over a coffee or a few beers.<br /><br />Tat - Too funny. The odd thing is that, overall, I really feel uncomfortable with contention... yet I do find myself stepping in it frequently for some reason.<br /><br />Marianne - Comments like yours and some of my own experiences are really causing me to question the validity of church. Why do we do it? What need does it serve? Are we contriving needs in order to do it? Questions, Questions, Questions... :)Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-54119569741615368262009-08-11T13:24:23.247-06:002009-08-11T13:24:23.247-06:00Oh dear. . this is why I don't go to church an...Oh dear. . this is why I don't go to church anymore. Too many "Debs" out there. Do people that choose to give of their time and participate in church activities all have to believe the exact same way as EVERYONE in their church (according to the Debs)? Creepy.marianne Martyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02827834787168501204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-80602873871540874842009-08-10T07:47:26.712-06:002009-08-10T07:47:26.712-06:00I just finished listening with the wife. Hope it p...I just finished listening with the wife. Hope it puts a smile on your face. :)<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBwsG8ubFwTit for Tathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454132514796693591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-78113073940124312432009-08-10T07:41:49.692-06:002009-08-10T07:41:49.692-06:00So I'd like to know where, you got the notion
...So I'd like to know where, you got the notion<br />said I'd like to know where, you got the notion<br /><br />to rock the boat, don't rock the boat baby<br />rock the boat, don't tip the boat over<br />rock the boat, don't rock the boat baby<br />rock the boat-t-t-t-t<br /><br /><br />I got that message real clear as soon as I started asking questions. Suffice to say the love of Christ wasnt shared with me. ;)Tit for Tathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454132514796693591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-88546614567468509312009-08-09T20:28:44.780-06:002009-08-09T20:28:44.780-06:00I love it...I dare assume 99% of people in any chu...I love it...I dare assume 99% of people in any church view 99% of issues differently. The problem is, it is through hashing out our differences that we find what we truly believe, and not just what we are told to believe. Thanks for standing out and standing up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-17386395813510255032009-08-09T20:13:03.078-06:002009-08-09T20:13:03.078-06:00Despite the superficial cordiality of the email ex...Despite the superficial cordiality of the email exchange that you reported, there is just something ominous and dark about your being subjected to heresy hunting and being reported to the pastor for daring to think outside of the box. Your story summarizes excellently so much of what is wrong with large segments of Christianity. <br /><br />Christianity really went seriously wrong when it got wrapped up in creeds and dogma. It really is a shame that good and thinking people are driven away by this kind of crap.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-49615997757156601142009-08-09T20:11:33.720-06:002009-08-09T20:11:33.720-06:00Andrew, I have complete empathy with what you are ...Andrew, I have complete empathy with what you are saying. It is funny how, with beliefs, there cannot be a fair exchange of ideas because beliefs are really more perception and emotion than fact. As a result they are easily threatened.<br />I often wonder how the conversation would go if those who asked to take my children to church with their families were granted permission if in exchange I could discuss my world view with their children in exchange.<br />What I do know is that I have ran into many people who like your example and Redlefty's example do not want alternative views shared with their children. To some extent I have been the same way.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08142060911229450235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-67666954592377380252009-08-09T18:21:18.980-06:002009-08-09T18:21:18.980-06:00p.s. -- you inspired me to check my own church'...p.s. -- you inspired me to check my own church's website for their "core beliefs", of which there is a list of <b>26</b>!<br /><br />I'm onboard with 10 of them. Yet I've preached twice this year. Go figure! I doubt there are 30 people in that church of 1,000 who actually agree on all 26 "essential" points.<br /><br />Maybe the thousands of current denominations still aren't enough? ;)Redleftyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04834798382800790723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5310981.post-41738903322119122832009-08-09T18:14:20.410-06:002009-08-09T18:14:20.410-06:00I'm with you brother -- thank you for not tryi...I'm with you brother -- thank you for not trying to wrap up this blog post with a bow on it. You acrruately reflected the fact that there are no easy solutions here.<br /><br />When I first started adopting a less-Evangelistic, more-Universalist position, my wife's first response was "I will never allow you to teach this to our children." It just seems to be our protectionist instinct to avoid the taintedness you mentioned, no matter the cost.<br /><br />To her credit, she got over that initial response and we've journeyed together beautifully since then. And what's interesting, after reflecting together, is that we've almost lost that instinct to fear and shun other viewpoints.<br /><br />I'm also with you on the kids' curriculum -- my 4yo son played a bingo game today with the ten plagues! I'm picturing how in the world they did a gameshow atmosphere with something like the curse of death on firstborn sons. Hopefully my son's too young to realize that <i>he's</i> a firstborn son -- yikes!<br /><br />Your email response in the blog post was excellent. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on this, if it's been a full year since it happened.Redleftyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04834798382800790723noreply@blogger.com